Tuesday, January 31

the words of a clergyman from a laurel bush

I believe that it is necessary that the Christian "community" stand up and walk away from this label that we are a people without reason, hippies, with purpose found only in feelings masquerading as faith
rather that it is impossible to separate God from science (as science can only be explained as an experiment seeking a theory deduced from a problem realized in the material created by God) that if we believe Christianity to be true, then it speaks to all of life and not only the believing few.
after all, belief does not create truth
truth demands belief
of course time allows that truth exist without belief
but I propose that the end of time will bring about a universal belief
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11 comments:

  1. cr10:23 AM

    Hahahaha. Yes, nice reference to Sir Miller's talk. Of course I wasn't there to hear him say that, but I did get wind of it (Jason! I said I "got" wind of it. I didn't say "break wind." So gassy.

    Anyway, to pull a jason, how do we know there is "truth" out there?

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  2. cr10:30 AM

    Ahh, there we go. That's a much clearer, full-circle explanation. I can work with that.

    Though, why is time the thing that allows truth to exist without belief?

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  3. cr10:36 AM

    "Time is the one place that allows for confusion."

    So, have you existed in a place without time? What makes you believe such a thing could exist? Aren't the happenings of our lives dependent on time? And, is there only one alternative to time - "no time." Couldn't there be a hybrid? Or perhaps a completely different beast?

    Of course I'm playing the DA here, but these are, perhaps, valid questions.

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  4. cr10:38 AM

    What is eternity? How do you know it exists?

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  5. cr10:50 AM

    Yeah, and that is all well and good, but how do you "test" for time vs. not time?

    Of course, I agree with your perspective - it's kind like rolling a ball down a hill - the ball won't roll until you first push it, but once it's in motion, the rest just keeps on going.

    So, here, once you take on your presuppostions, all you say makes sense. But how do you get to a point where you could believe those presuppostions?

    Apparently "proof" is not available. "Faith" is needed - but why have faith? Where do you draw the line - bridge the gap?

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  6. cr10:54 AM

    So, in eternity, there becomes a lack of counting? We will be unable to have 5 conversations with this saint or that saint? We won't ever repeat any action? All work will never revolve around a cycle - something that could be counted?

    Again, I think you're on to something, but even in math - where things are always counted - we have the concept of infinity. A concept that fits in right along with finite countings. "As the limit of x goes to 1, y equals infinity." Hahaha. Maybe I'll stop this thought here...

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  7. cr11:01 AM

    Presup 1 - eternity exists
    #2 - life is dependent on time, not the other way around
    #3 - there is absolute truth, or just truth in general
    #4 - something of infinite measure can be finite in nature

    And there may be more, built upon the Christian perspectives of "the hereafter."

    And faith was something I added. Because - in the world of science - you must submit to this philosophy - "Things cannot be proven true; they can only be proven false." So, to believe in truth requires something beyond tests and evidence.

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  8. cr11:10 AM

    Well, in the world of "proofs" that is the case. Now, we do have "laws" in place that we generally accept as being true. However, we also have had things like "the law of conservation of mass," which was later revised to be "the law of conservation of mass and energy." We observe things to be "true," but - at least as far as I know from my studies - we aren't allowed to say that we can prove something to be true.

    Even in cases where we prove something by contradiction - basically throw out all cases to be wrong except for one - you still have to submit to the case that there is another condition - or some hocus pocus like that. However, if you give a counter-example for a "proof," well then, it's false. No doubts about it.

    Of course, it's been years since I studied this stuff - my understanding of it could be rusty...

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  9. Unknown12:05 PM

    This looks familiar...

    First of all: 'Thanks' for posting your own words. They did not disappoint, and you should do it more often.

    Second: Clever title

    Third: I think you know my position on this...so, I'm going to go back to sleep now (it's the middle of the night for me!)

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  10. Unknown12:14 PM

    oh... and boys, really, I think the 'logical' thing for you to do is have a conversation on ONE blog.

    Please.

    How the heck am I supposed to know what's going on?

    Creth, could you bend the rules and post responses on your own blog (you know...for the sake of continuity)?

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  11. Jen7:39 AM

    Emily-I love "logical"

    Christian-Jason DOES rub off on you...he should come with a warning label

    Creth-nice to see your own words

    I liked "feelings masquerading as faith" and "truth demands belief"...gave me something to chew on

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